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Memory: IS VERY IMPORTANT... - John Nicholson - 18-07-2005
Rob i take your point readily on training being at the forfront of personal memory every physical thing we will ever do will always be enhanced by training,most of it natuaraly occuring and most of us are totaly unaware of it, virtualy all the time.
but geobob hit on the physical effects on the mentality somwhere,i have always been extreamly physicaly lazy, if i ever need exercise i drive faster, and at 65 it is almost to late to change but i am thinking of hypnossis.
you may see from my bit posted on easy learning where my intrests are concerned, i am short of personal time. i require vast amounts of other peoples time to achieve anything, when i first discovered the properties of the abacus on the human brain and redesigned it for every child on earth i thought everyone would imeadiatly recognise the value of it in teaching efecency (look how usless i am at spelling but it is the sound of the word and understanding the meaning where the importance lie) (more wasting of time for the pedantics with a dictionary) efficiency.
BUT ONLY THE WRITTEN WORD CAN STORE A CONCEPT SO EASILY
The internet has revived reading, it is so easily taught that every six year old child that cannot read is being treated cruely.
I feel we must identify what a child needs to be taught, teach them quickly and leave them with a good roadmap to help themselves after all thats where we all end up but for gods sake let us give them the tools.
for instance establishing memory as regards reading we only ever need teach in low case, upper case comes from experiance and assosiation,
the mind takes in sounds better then anything else except where danger ocours, (thats why the old teachers hit them so much they created danger delibrately) establishing a memory of the alphbet in alphabet sound will always be step one (it is easy) the problems start when the second step is neglected or uncompleated the recognition of every letter in alphbet sound first. THE PHONETIC SOUNDS ARE REMEMBERED NATURELY
THE FIRST OR SECOND CONSRUCT AFTER NUMBERS
thankfully my mother tounge is not chinese, 5000 symbles before they start to read.
as to causel your thinking on stem cells came after my observation on conception ?
Memory: IS VERY IMPORTANT... - segarama - 18-07-2005
Hi John, the positive attitude and good emotions come through....the child must also have the positive attitude and good emotions when learning/memory. Memory is a big part of learning and "good" emotion not fear is a sometimes referred to as an emotional/hook-up. Research has shown that students who are more engaged in an activity and have an emotional buy in tend to stimulate more synaptic potentials thus causing a stronger connection. It follows suit that when trying to retrieve such learning that it is more efficacious and easier the stronger the input connection is made.
Be well,
Rob
Memory: IS VERY IMPORTANT... - segarama - 19-07-2005
Retrieved online July 18, 2005 from the San Diego Union Tribune by Bruce Lieberman......Study Narrows Search for Brain's Memory Site.http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20050603/news_7m3brain.html
Be well,
Rob
Memory: IS VERY IMPORTANT... - Christina - 19-07-2005
segarama Wrote:
Be well,
Rob
Hi Rob,
I would be very interested to read about this. Do you have an article that discusses the concept that, "students who are more engaged in an activity and have an emotional buy in tend to stimulate more synaptic potentials thus causing a stronger connection." This would be most useful to me.
Thanks very much,
Christina
Memory: IS VERY IMPORTANT... - John Nicholson - 19-07-2005
Hi RobBrainpower
Instinctively which obviously means subconsciously thought out, we need to be very careful as far as the brain is concerned, every new piece of information is exciting and helpful, but I am sceptical that we shall learn more about the workings of the brain from science then we shall from reason. Every piece of proven science will help reasoning, but good thinking will help science equally and good thinking will always be necessary to turn science into practical results. As I made a start to communicate with the wider world the necessity of co-ordinting concepts to prevent the likes of 11 11 and 7 7 happening over and over again (we are simply allowing our ancient tribal survival instincts to dominate good thinking, knowledge is the only commodity we can share without loss) my computer would not function properly everything was still there but one tiny fault prevented it working how often is this the case with the human brain. My concentrated efforts are towards children and food production for me every thing else takes second place a child dying of unnecessary starvation is more vital to me the any other concept within humanity lack of universal primary education I perceive as the only possible way we can attempt to remedy the worlds problems.
my own mind is etched with the marks of unfairness individual justice is the right of every human being in any fair society.
we all have a duty to ensure every child has the best possible education so understanding memory and memory creation is the first step.
Memory: IS VERY IMPORTANT... - segarama - 19-07-2005
Hi Christina, Last night when I addressed John's post, I was reading Synaptic Self by Joseph LeDoux, Brain Matters by Patricia Wolfe, Memory: From Mind to Molecules by Squire and Kandel along with Jim Zull's book on The Art of Changing the Brain. I was also on the net trying to get a neural memory connection with Experiencial Learning......so I am finding bits and pieces of what I said.....However, just remember "A ship in port is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." -Benazir Bhutto. It is not that I read that much, but I was comparing author's opinions on learning.Please take a look at the material that I send you...and be reminded that when we retrieve memory it is not stored all in one place, but come from many difference locations in the brain and we must reassemble them.
The meaningful question in this phase of experiential learning is "So what?" The primary task is for students to identify patterns which will help them make inferences from a specific experience to everyday life. Since the human brain does not input facts into memory in the same manner as is done by a computer, emotions, thoughts, behaviors, and observations must all be taken into account. Learning takes place when the brain is allowed to sort out patterns and construct meaning based on experiences. Brain researchers have concluded that this type of learning results in the opening of new or enlarged neural pathways in the brain.
"The more powerful, significant, or varied the experience or stimuli which initiated the learning, the stronger and more numerous are the synaptic connections, resulting in better understanding."
- R. W. Dozier Jr.
Emotion and Learning
As for the emotional development of children, although it has been known for a long time that the amygdala is a part of the neural circuitry for emotion (Gallager & Chiba, 1996), it has been only been recently that researchers have identified specific circuits involved in the transmission of sensory inputs to the amygdala for emotional learning and memory processes (LeDoux, 1992). As well, Goleman was critical in introducing the effects of emotion on cognition to educators (1995, cited by Sylwester, 2000a). Beneficially, the stronger the emotion that is associated with an experience, the stronger the memory will be of that experience. On the other hand, if the emotion is too strong, such as in a situation in which the learner feels threatened, then learning decreases (Wolfe et al., 1998; D’Arcangelo, 1998). This is known as "downshifting" (Hart, 1983, cited by Sprenger, 1999; Forester & Reinhard, 2000). In other words, emotions can be very powerful in affecting our actions, since "our emotional system drives our attentional system, which drives learning and memory and everything else that we do" (Sylwester in D’Arcangelo, 1998, p. 25). Thus, the research on the impact of emotion on learning cannot be ignored.
Motivation Richard Restak, a neurobiologist, writes in his book The Brain: "Learning is not primarily dependent on a reward. In fact, rats--as well as humans--will consistently seek new experiences and behaviors with no perceivable reward or impetus. Experimental rats respond positively to simple novelty. Studies confirm that the mere pursuit of information can be valuable by itself and that humans are just as happy to seek novelty."
Robert Aitken at the Vancouver British Columbia Community College points out that we choose to stay motivated. "One of the things becoming clear is that our brains have been built for survival. That hasn't changed in 30,000 years. If something helps us survive, we're motivated to learn.
"Trainers have to find ways to convince learners that this is vital to their survival. If we get an emotional buy-in then learning takes place."
We can approach motivation from several different points of view, says Geoffrey Caine. "The distinction is between intrinsic and extrinsic motivation. Intrinsic motivation has to do with what we want, need, and desire. It's deeply grounded in our values and feelings. Extrinsic motivation is often an attempt by someone else trying to make us want to do something. In terms of learning and creativity, we know there's a positive correlation between creativity and intrinsic motivation. When we're organizing information in our minds, the way we form patterns is deeply motivated by what we're interested in."
We have all heard the phrase Use it or lose it. That's the ultimate truth of the healthy brain's capability to learn, change, and grow as long as we're alive.
"The most exciting discovery about all of this work is that education should continue for a lifetime. With enrichment, we grow dendrites; with impoverishment, we lose them at any age," concludes Diamond.
Be well,Rob
Memory: IS VERY IMPORTANT... - John Nicholson - 20-07-2005
Good morning Rob
My subconscious brain has been working on answering yourself and Geoff, all of yesterday and more importantly throughout the night, I should very much like to know how old you are, I notice that you have taught in Africa, I should very much like you to consider my concept school it is a school where everyone teaches and everyone learns what we learn in the morning we teach in the afternoon after all that is what you are doing with us, and I for one am very grateful, you remind me of a close friend of mine, and exceptional agriculturalist, he came from a family were the father was the son of a farm worker and the mother the daughter of a farmer, my friend was very dyslexic but ended up with an honours degree from Newcastle University in agriculture, I met him in a paddock in Australia (Scottish born from the hill farming area) he had travelled the length and breadth of Australia, he knew the rainfall of every part of Australia and the soil type of every area in Australia, he and involved himself in every type of farming possible and four years of travelling throughout Australia, he advised Western Australian farmers, to leave their dry farms, and head for the tropical rainstorms in Queensland.
But the Australia Government threw him out, on his return to England he commenced sheep farming with his brother, after a 12 hour day together, his brother made the remark to him, “ Your bloody head most ache†So in the nature of my friend Rob you must continue to read to learn and to tell the likes of myself what you have learnt, nothing will ever stop you, just as I adore thought out phrases, that occur and reoccur throughout recent history, not one of mine, but I love it, “ I speak to enchant†does anyone know the history of it, I have been looking also for the history of the phrase.
“Memory is everything†we can attribute it to you Rob but does anyone know from whence it came.
Memory: IS VERY IMPORTANT... - geodob - 20-07-2005
Hi John,
I must question your friend's recommendation to Western Australian farmers that they leave their dry farms and head for the Tropics.
Given that I happen to live in the desert outback of Western Australia.
Where I might add that we're in for a record wheat harvest this year.
After it rained a few times this year.
Geoff.
Memory: IS VERY IMPORTANT... - John Nicholson - 21-07-2005
hi Geof and Rob i know that Rob wants us to stick to the point on this thread,so i want talk to you both about memory with an example, some moments in life are for ever recorded instantly permanatly automaticaly,looking at how the brain works from a technical point of view,obviously we have to segment it to understand it,i crave to understand more, but my pesonal view is that we have most hope of understanding using of course the scientific hi tec stuff here but we must consider that observation and reason must play the largest part,if we are capable of instant memory (WHICH IS SELF EVIDENT) we have to look towards using that capability within education,for me i like the term of whole brain participation,
(whole brain) is the concept we need to use ,then we can can consider what whole brain realy means. If nature creates instant memory automaticaly we have to imitate it, in teaching the vital concepts.
After writing those two pieces to you yesterday i came up with a couple of more lines which i want you to consider (i am roaming around for a few days)
The concept of brain speed
The subconscious automatic speed at which the brain works is far faster then we can think. Proven by the decoding of words. The decoding turns the word into sound and the sound into understanding. Image in action
(Rob USED DECODING WORDS IN HIS EXAMPLE) (I thought it the odd man out at first, purely because we are aware of the meaning of words as we decode them, but returning to consider as rob concluded that decoding itself is subconscious)
The first letter of every word is the ignition key to the word the second letter combined with the first letter gives direction of sound combined with eyesight comprehension at the speed of light.
Instant memory,
my instant memory Geof was of driving through the rabbit proof fence from Hyden we came across a young couple whose crop had failed further norh east of Hyden they had not given up hope but driven their combine and truck to the south east to earn the money to return to their farm and try again.
he had the hat and the corks they were sat at the side of the road eating sandwiches covered by a million flies, when we stoped to talk to them he said he had just made the observation to the wife that it must be the rush hour, try forgetting that.
only "hole mind" is effective we have to use the concept and all those of us who are concerned with it have to build the explanations.
my pal the east yorkshire physics proff who had met Richard Fynman said when asked what was the most important thing he had ever learnt was
"THE DIFFERANCE BETWEEN WORDS AND THE MEANING OF WORDS"
We will always have the difficulty Fynman highlighted but at this level of thinking, words is all we have, one of Socrates pals said reading made a learned man debate a ready man but writing an exact man (i am still only a ready man unfortunatly)
i am glad you are expecting a good harvest in wa, what is a guy like doing out there? running the radio school.
and just for them as noes nowt about it you need as a rough guide one thousand tons of water to produce one ton of wheat and lorry loads of sweat to be in the position to do it,
.
Memory: IS VERY IMPORTANT... - geodob - 21-07-2005
Hi John,
Was that the gravel Hyden Road heading south east that you drove down?
As that road finishes 150 miles down the track, just 3 houses away, at the end of my street. In the little town of Norseman.
Geoff.
Memory: IS VERY IMPORTANT... - segarama - 21-07-2005
Hi John,I try not to tell people my age. But thanks for asking. John, any success that I may have had comes from a very common man who loves his family and the students and friends. I just happen to learn for intrinsic reasons. It means more to me that way. Life means more to me that way....and I sleep very well at night.
You sound like a good man.
Be well,
Rob
Memory: IS VERY IMPORTANT... - geodob - 22-07-2005
Hi John,
I live out here in the outback desert, because in the age of the internet it is an ideal location to continue my activity as Life-Long Learner. Where I have no aim to arrive at an end-point. But rather to continue life as an explorer?
Your speculation about "running a radio school' was ironic. As I was previously involved with establishing a Community TV station in Perth, and have recently been developing an outline for initiating a local Community Radio station. Which will be operated by our local School and School Students.
Which I view as providing a valuable Experiential Learning opportunity.
Where I would add that I have also had Radio broadcasting experience.
The operation of a radio station, involves all of the learning areas that Students are involved in studying. So it will provide an ideal opportunity to put their learning into practise. As well as, help them realise the value of learning skills that they are currently deficient in, and provide some personal motivation.
Well, this is a basic outline of my proposal to the School Admin and various Funding Bodies.
Small town communities offer the potential to explore such activities, which would be virtually impossible to set up in the City?
It also highlights a distinction between City and Country 'professionals'?
Where the 'city professional', works within a very limited boundary.
Whereas, the 'country professional', needs a far broader understanding. As they have no-one to pass the work onto?
In a world of 'specialization', where people know 'more and more, about less and less'?
Experiential Learning is essential for converting Knowledge into Understanding!
Is the end-goal, knowledge or understanding?
Which raises the question of education as the acquisition of knowledge or understanding?
When speaking to an 'expert' on a 'subject'. Who would you trust more?
An expert in the knowledge of their subject.
Or.
An expert who simply understood their subject.
Perhaps you know or understand what I'm suggesting?
Geoff.
Memory: IS VERY IMPORTANT... - segarama - 22-07-2005
I would like to get this thread back to Memory is Very Important if possible. I am just as 
getting off track and everyone else so no error, no foul. I am reading a book by Peter R. Huttenlocher entitle NEURAL PLASTICITY...The Effects of Enviornment on the Development of the Cerebral Cortex. I noticed that every outgrowth , dendrite or axonic, in the course of formation, passes through a chaotic period, so to speak, a period of trials, during which there are sent out at random experimental conductors, most of which are destined to disapear.
Santiago Ramony Cajal, 1937
I am beginning to see patterns everywhere that I look and read; this is attributed to neurobiological underpinnings that Squire and Kandel put forth in their book Memory: From Mind to Molecules. If are trying to recall a specific memory from the past and it is long term then we must create that memory by retrieving bits and pieces of memory from the brain [cortex] that do not exactly always make the memory totally exact. But as I have learned the memory of an animal is partially present and we fill in the rest. If the postsynaptic connections are strengthen to a great extent at the time of the experience then, I believe that the clarity of the memory would be much better, whether it is a memory picture or a important memory without images.
I like the idea of Squire and Kandel to move science to a molecular biology of cognition. It is more comprehensive to me.
Please comment right or wrong or whatever.
Best
Rob
Memory: IS VERY IMPORTANT... - segarama - 23-07-2005
Memory if you have not already guessed is instrinsically very important to me. With memory there of course is learning and sometimes we learn something incorrectly and what do we do about that: According to James Zull in his text The Art of Changing the Brain Chapter 7. Only Connect! addresses how teachers can change neuronal networks.
It is very difficult to change a neuronal network once it is already learned. The physical neuronal network is actually prior learning and is very imortant in memory and learning.
What happens when the student learns incorrect knowledge or non adaptive knowledge. How does one erase or "get rid" of these types of knowledge. We cannot just add correct prior knowledge neuronal networks to knowledge that is wrong. Remember that this "wrong" connection came from some experience.
:o I believe it is time to really look at the underpinnings of the prior learning since it becomes physically neuronal networks. We need to look carefully at how the incorrect or non adaptive learning which is a physical neuronal network can be modified.
Christina, I am very interested in you input. Right now I am looking at apoptosis (cell suicide), prunning, and having the non adaptive neuronal network fade away from lack of use .....or the growing of an adaptive or correct new neuronal network [not on top of the existing neuronal network], but separate in another location; maybe on a dentrite. This will be interesting...especially since prior learning takes in experiential learning, memory, and just about all types of learning if not all.best,
Rob :o
Memory: IS VERY IMPORTANT... - segarama - 23-07-2005
I would like to recommend as a follow-up to my latest message regarding non adaptive or incorrect prior learning that people who are interested in seeing an excellent 20 minute video, please search for Annenberg/CPB Learner.org......You must follow all of the directions of the Annenberg/CPB website and to sign in and follow all of the rules. Once you are registered you can veiw very good videos on education etc. One in particular that I would like to recommend is A Private Universe. This particular video shows how difficult it is to undo non adaptive or incorrect prior learning.
Search for: A Private Universe, Again, Annenberg insists on following all copyright rules and rules of the Annenberg/CPB.
Be well,
Rob
Memory: IS VERY IMPORTANT... - segarama - 24-07-2005
MEMORY AND LEARNING is going to be taking a new look at the neurobiological underpinnings of the glia cells. Even Einstein' s brain was not particularly different from the average brain EXCEPT that it contained many many more glial cells than the average person. Since glia cells up until recently have been recognized as the neuron's helper, there is strong neuro biological evidence that the glial cell, not only communicate with one another but yet possibly communicate with neurons. We already know that the oligodendrytes and Schwann cells (gilal) help in the remyelination of the neuron's axon in both the CNS and the PNS respectively.
I believe that memory and learning has a definite critical neurobiological spot called the synapse that will focus more on ATP. "Somehow the firing of neurons induces glial cells around an axon to emit ATP. The ATP (adenosine triphosphate) is a source of energy for cellulary activity. We also know that excited astrocytes (glial cells) release ATP and allow entry of calcium.
SOME OF THE BEST RESEARCHERS ARE WORKING ON THIS NOW.
Best,
Rob
Memory: IS VERY IMPORTANT... - segarama - 24-07-2005
Well, Glial cells can help strongly influence how many synapses a neuron forms and where it forms them....[very good article pg. 55-61 in Scientific American ....date April 2004.Enjoy
Rob
Memory: IS VERY IMPORTANT... - veldamarie - 25-07-2005
Memory and retention are key concepts now in education now. This is the "big" movement in student achievement. Schools are desperately seaching for ways to enhance,impact,and or imrpove memory in hopes of being able to comply with accountability as it relates to assessment.
At the K-12 level, teachers want to know how to take information to the level of knowledge. I think having a clear understanding of the "memory systems" and how they function is the basic foundation for teachers.
It's a frightening revelation that "some" teachers are not clear on how memory is developled and how this knowledge could assist them in enhancing teaching and learning. There's a big emphasis placed on standardized testing each year and teachers often rely on memory and retention to evaluate achievement.
This is where I see neuroscience and education merging in order to develop a conceptual framework for incorporating strageties to enhance memory and retention and maybe it's here that we can fully dirrerentiate between memory and to memorize.
Assessemt is another "big" concept in education and much of what teachers do directly correlates with memory, retention and recall. Can someone shead some light on how we can assist teachers in the process of understanding this information? When students fail to achieve and to demonstrate mastery it's often the teachers who are to blame for poor/low assessment results.
Please Help!
segarama Wrote:
There are many directions to go when speaking of MEMORY. Unconscious memory or nondeclarative memory compared to conscious memory or declarative memory is not even close to being the same thing. As a matter of fact in proving that we have an unconscious memory is indeed 'causal'.
Those that are interested in memory, it is an important part of learning and an important part of constructivist learning also.
Rob
Segarama
Memory: IS VERY IMPORTANT... - segarama - 25-07-2005
Hi Veldamarie, I certainly understand the helpless feeling of assessment. I do not find it much easier at the University or College level. However when I was superintendent the presure from the public to have high scores was tremendous. I had one principal of a school who would get so sick to his stomach the week that the newpapers were to publish his school's scores that he was an emotion wreck. I do believe that we can all help by emphasizing to the public that our teachers are not just concerned with negotiations and money [but very important] but with the problem of having to teach and assess without a great deal of depth. We are behind the times if we are not teaching in-depth. We are assessing students with the easiest manner possible...and that in many cases is electronically on standardized test, which by technology obviates complete explanations and in-depth assessments.
In the meantime, we as teachers have the students more that anyone else each day. We must treat them with kindness, respect and warmth. They are looking to us for guidance more than ever. This is a great profession; where can you be so helpful and nurturing? This is worth it.
Best,
Rob
Memory: IS VERY IMPORTANT... - Karldw - 25-07-2005
The discussion of cognition and memory is dangerously narrow. The situation is far more complex to be able to draw conclusions from what is said.
Memory: IS VERY IMPORTANT... - segarama - 25-07-2005
Welcome to a great Monday... Memory is important...learning is important and this particular URL that you might see is good for a Monday.(Memory and more)URL: http://www.scilearn.com/index.php3/link=bcbot
I feel the need to slow my self down a bit...My new books have not come in yet and I am needing to restore my off line life. Remember the International Mind, Brain and Education Society in it's infancy is looking for good members. I will send you another URL: http://www.imbes.org/
Rob
Memory: IS VERY IMPORTANT... - Karldw - 25-07-2005
segarama Wrote:
URL: http://www.scilearn.com/index.php3/link=bcbot
I feel the need to slow my self down a bit...My new books have not come in yet and I am needing to restore my off line life. Remember the International Mind, Brain and Education Society in it's infancy is looking for good members. I will send you another URL: http://www.imbes.org/
Rob
The International Mind, Brain, and Education Society (IMBES) appears to have a mission, an executive board, and a board of advisors but I can not find an active link to membership, books and journal, or resources. Did you fill out the membership form and mail it in? They do not appear to have online membership.
Memory: IS VERY IMPORTANT... - segarama - 25-07-2005
Application....part of IMBES....click picture...
Be well,
Rob
URL: http://www.imbes.org/
Memory: IS VERY IMPORTANT... - segarama - 26-07-2005
It is my strong belief that the more a student is involved in a project or an activity, the more stimulation or effect is placed on synaptic connections thus causing better learning and memory.
URL.....http://web.bsu.edu/tlat/compleat_learner/feb_01/feb01_useit.html
Be well,
Rob
Memory: IS VERY IMPORTANT... - segarama - 26-07-2005
:o
If you only read this paper on Eric Kandel, you will be a "step up" in understanding memory and learning. I am searching for neurobiological underpinnings that will satisfy me that students who are thoroughly involved in their subject and very excited about it, create stronger synaptic connections and most probably more synaptic connection. I believe this is possible by the internal biology of the student.
URL: http://nobelprize.org/medicine/laureates/2000/kandel-autobio.html
Be well,
Rob